Stories in Life. On the Radio with Mark and Joe.
Mark and Joe interview people with stories that affirm your belief in the goodwill, courage, determination, commitment and vision of everyday people.
Our primary goal is that, through another person's story, you will find meaningful connection no matter your place in life. We intend that the stories we select will be inspiring and maybe help you laugh, cry, think or change your mind about something important in your life.
Stories in Life. On the Radio with Mark and Joe.
Minnesota Superintendent of the Year: Dr. Laurie Putnam’s Vision for Hope, Truth, Unity and Growth
Superintendent Laurie Putnam shares her inspiring vision for public education, emphasizing hope, truth, unity and growth in the St. Cloud Area Schools District. Through candid discussions on leadership challenges, the importance of diverse representation, and an innovative community school model, she highlights the imperative to rethink success metrics in education with a commitment to schools as a place for developing a stronger community.
• Focus on hope as a cornerstone of leadership,
• Importance of listening to educators on the front lines,
• Addressing community representation within school staff,
• Implementation of a community school model for comprehensive support of students and staff,
• Advocating for new methods for assessment of academic performance across Minnesota,
• Emphasis on self-care and resilience for educators, and
• Call to action for collaborative conversations on the future of education.
Welcome to Stories in Life. You're on the radio with Mark and Joe. We share stories that affirm your belief in the goodwill, courage, determination, commitment and vision of everyday people through another person's story, you may find connection, no matter your place in life.
Mark Wolak:The stories we select will be inspiring and maybe help you laugh, cry, think or change your mind about something important in your life. Join us for this episode of Stories in Life.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:I see public schools as one of the last few places where lots of different people come together. What I believe about leadership is that we lead who we are, and so I have spent a long time getting to know who I am, what I value, what drives me, what I am turned off by right, because that shows up, whether we are intentional about it or not. It shows up in our decision making, right in every, you know, in most interactions that we have. So what I love about this job is that I one of my core value, probably the primary core value is hope, and in this role I have the privilege of seeing so much hope and I have the privilege of making hope.
Joe Boyle:Today we have a very special guest, Dr. Laurie Putnam. She's the superintendent for the St Cloud Area Schools District 742, which includes St Cloud, Clear Lake, Clearwater, Collegeville, Luxembourg, Pleasant Lake, St Augusta and Waite Park. She's been declared Minnesota Superintendent of the Year for 2025.
Mark Wolak:We welcome Dr Putnam to Stories in Life. Hi Laurie, hi Laurie, hello, thank you so much for doing this.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you for the opportunity.
Mark Wolak:One of the things that appealed to me about a conversation with you is the recognition, but also sort of the things behind your drive. Before we get started, though, one of the things I wanted to ask you would you like us to call you Lori, or should we call you Superintendent Putnam, Dr Putnam.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:Laurie, please.
Mark Wolak:Okay, all right that simplifies. To get us started. Tell us a little bit about your time in education. I noticed that you've been a principal. You've been an assistant superintendent. Tell us a little bit about your background.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:You know I started in education when I was in grad school. Actually I started as a para classroom para for a third grade student with an emotional behavioral disability diagnosis and that was my first formal job in education. And from there I went to work for Upward Bound not to be confused with Outward Bound right, which involves spiders and tents, and that's not my thing, but Upward Bound, which is helping low-income students get to college, that is my thing. So I started working for them when I was still in Maine and when we moved to Minnesota in 1999, I was able to continue working for them, just with a different, obviously higher education institution. Spent some time with them and then got my first job in Minnesota K-12 education at Edison High School as a school counselor. So worked there in Minneapolis for about seven or so years, worked at both Edison High School and then I was a school counselor at a school called Stadium View A lot of people don't know much about it, it's the 712 school that Minneapolis runs inside the Hennepin County Juvenile Detention Center.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:So worked for them for a while and then took some time off for my children and We moved to St Cloud. The universe, god, goddess right, whatever power people ascribe to. You know the path opened, and so I became assistant principal for three years at South Junior High and then principal at Kennedy it's a preschool through eighth grade and then assistant superintendent for three years. So here in St Cloud.
Mark Wolak:Yeah, that's wonderful. You know I'm an Apollo Eagle. I was a 1971 graduate from Apollo, and both Joe and I are graduates of St Cloud State University.
Joe Boyle:I was a Husky still am.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:Yeah, I was a Husky, always a Husky right.
Joe Boyle:That's right.
Mark Wolak:So I have some really fond memories of St Cloud and also very fond memories of my teachers and my principal at Apollo High School. Like you, I started in education as a paraprofessional when I was a senior in high school. We had a program that allowed me to go tutor kids and it just created a tremendous career for me. So I share that with you. Joe and I are going to alternate questions. We're going to try to keep it going down the direction of getting to know you better and also having our listeners get to know what it's like to be a leader in a public school system.
Joe Boyle:Laurie, one of the things you were evaluated on was your leadership for learning, and I'd like you to elaborate on the leadership for learning skills you've honed and how they're currently implemented.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:Thank you. You know as a, you know as a principal and now as a superintendent. There's a lot of expectation as there should be, around leadership for learning, particularly when people say that they genuinely generally mean academic learning Right, and our job is to graduate students from high school and and we take that very seriously as a former school counselor, I also think about social, emotional learning and self-knowing Right. So those are some other things that I think about when I when we talk, when I think about leadership for learning, but particularly as a school counselor, I had to get really proficient in academic instruction.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:Because, having never been a full time classroom teacher myself, I invested a lot of time, watched a lot of really good teachers, and so you know, I think you know some of the skills that I think first of all is listening right, listening to the people who know this really well and, just like any field of research, instruction, understanding about how kids learn. Even what we think kids should know changes over time. And so I listen and I learn from the people who know it and who are in the research and in the day to day, and I try I always see my job, who know it and who are in the research and in the day-to-day and I try. I always see my job, no matter what position I have, as clearing obstacles. Right, that is my job.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:I can't know everything, I can't do everything. Sometimes it feels like do I know anything in a system this large? Do I actually do anything here? But that's my job. Right is I set a vision and I clear obstacles, and the vision for me is to change outcomes, particularly academic outcomes, for our students.
Mark Wolak:Wonderful. That's powerful. What do you like most about your job? You know you are leading a really complex system of systems. How do you stay grounded in what you like about the job? What is that that drives you?
Dr. Laurie Putnam:You know, what I believe about leadership is that we lead who we are, and so I have spent a long time getting to know who I am, what I value, what drives me, what I am turned off by right, because that shows up whether we are intentional about it or not. It shows up in our decision making right, in every, you know, in most interactions that we have. So what I love about this job is that I one of my core value, probably the primary core value is hope, and in this role I have the privilege of seeing so much hope and I have the privilege of making hope right. And I did joke about, like, do I actually get to do anything here? But to be able to be trusted in a system, either by the board or by you know, I'm only a leader because people choose to come along beside me. I'm able to again clear that, like I said, I can say, oh, here's our vision. Right, this is what we stand for in St Cloud Area Schools, and people join me in that right.
Mark Wolak:So that's powerful. Yeah, that really is very powerful.
Joe Boyle:I've done some research and you've received some wide praise for closing systematic gaps that caused inequities in the St Cloud schools, and I'd like to have you tell us more about that. I heard that more than once in some of the articles I read.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:Well, that's an honor. Truly, that is powerful positive feedback for me. When our former superintendent chose to leave, I had to ask myself if, as a white woman, was I the right person to lead a school district that has a majority of students of color, families of color. Those are who we serve, right, that is our, that is our community in St Cloud public schools, and I was talking to one of our outgoing board members and, of course, I talked to our former superintendent and both men of color, both African-American men, and you know the. The resounding feedback I got was, of course, right, but but also you know the, the reminder that your job is to open doors, right, your job is to pull chairs up to the table and make sure that there are multiple voices, multiple perspectives, and I've taken that really seriously.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:So my hope is that, as a leader in this district, I have provided opportunity for people who have different worldviews, backgrounds, culture, language, religion, right, that I have put them in places where they can also help close gaps. That's one of my primary jobs, I think, is creating a brilliant team who can be out in schools making a difference day by day, kid by kid, because we have to have great principals. We have to have great directors, great teachers, who, when they see a gap, an opportunity gap, an achievement gap, they have the tools and the confidence and the moral obligation to do those things, because I'm only one person.
Joe Boyle:So you helped create a new normal, so to speak.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:I hope so.
Mark Wolak:Yes, well, part of that new normal is, I was amazed at the diversity of your staff.
Mark Wolak:And you know, having grown up in St Cloud and having had parents and my siblings and relatives also grow up there, and my siblings and relatives also grow up there, I find the staffing of the St Cloud Public Schools to just be amazing, because it looks like it really reflects the community, just like it did when I grew up, you know, and there just were fewer people of color there at the time, but I had a great experience. It was a really a remarkable. It was a remarkable school district and it must be that today for all these people represented by the teachers and the staff that you're hiring. That's amazing.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:We work really hard at that. Yeah, there aren't, particularly, I think, after COVID, or at least maybe that's just one one thing I ascribe it to. Right, there aren't many public places where lots of people. People come together and that has to be reflected in our staffing, no matter the race, religion, culture of who we hire. That belonging is top of mind. That's one of our core focus areas is belonging and that's important whether you're a brand new employee, a first-time classroom teacher, first-time custodian, right Knowing that you matter and that somebody is going to reach out a hand and say, hey, let me help you. This is how we do things here. What different thoughts do you have? We're really trying to work on intentional strategies to keep the people that we hire.
Joe Boyle:Quick question when did the students of color become the majority? How long ago?
Dr. Laurie Putnam:Within the last five years.
Joe Boyle:Okay.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:Yep. So we're at and people often don't know it about St Cloud. 15 years ago St Cloud didn't wasn't as racially diverse as probably socioeconomically diverse, so people don't know if they haven't been here. But we have far more in common as a public school district with our Metro counterparts than we do with our surrounding communities. So we're about 70% students of color, 70% students who receive free and reduced lunch. Last year alone we served 884 homeless students.
Joe Boyle:Wow, good for you.
Mark Wolak:What do you wish people knew more about public schools? You know I spent a career in schools. I thought they were so important for community and you've referenced the importance of how you're looking at the public school district as a community, as a way to congregate community and bring people together. What do you wish people like our listeners? What do you want them to know about it?
Dr. Laurie Putnam:Don't believe everything you hear or read. You know, ask us, come find out, come see for yourself. I think that it's easy, right, especially and I'm not sure why, but I think it's easy to make public education a scapegoat, right? Or to say, you know, to look at one standardized test, which I understand is what the state uses, but to look at one standardized test and then the results of that and then extrapolate meaning about a public school district, right, and about the quality of education it's providing or experiences it's providing for its students. So I think that that's what I wish people would don't make assumptions, right, there's lots of whether politically, no matter where you are in the political spectrum, right, there's a lot of, sometimes, misinformation.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:I think it's finally died down. But the whole, for a while, people were saying St Cloud was putting kitty litter, cat litter boxes in our bathrooms because kids were identifying as cats, like, come on now, right, like, and that's again why public education is so important, because that's, that is a ridiculous thing, um, and that's, I'm being very clear about that, right, that is a ridiculous thing and, um, I think that there's lots of.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:Again, no matter which where you are in the political spectrum, um, there's lots of benefit to fear-mongering, to making public education an other right. Because then it's not us. That's what I wish.
Joe Boyle:People would just pause right Pause and ask it for themselves. Following up on that, it's been reported that your school district standardized test scores are below the average. Tell us about the implementation of the modern classroom program that you started.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:You know, for us we have and this is interesting because it was a problem that we faced when I worked at the. I was a school counselor for the middle and high school that was inside the Hennepin County short-term juvenile detention center, right. So the community we served while working there, by its very nature, was short-term, right, and so we. Our job was to take students where they were at, grab credit, help them find their credits because likely they'd been lots of mobile, right. Help them accumulate their credits so they had something solid when they left us, and take them from where they were to where they were going.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:Another thing that people might not know about St Cloud is that many, the majority of our schools have extremely transient populations. Sometimes, often as much as 40, as many as 40% of our students will change over in a year, and that is for people who have been in classrooms. To have 40% of our students will change over in a year Wow, and that is for people who have been in classrooms. To have 40% of the kids in front of you come and go is incredible and really challenging because kids come in at a variety of places. So we've really and this was a grassroots movement, we never mandated it. We said here is an option, and so we have a real growth of teachers who have embraced modern classroom, and that is a. It's a model where students can work at their own pace. I'm certainly within a right, within a set Yep.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:There are some. You know, I was never, I think, a stellar math student, Right, but there are some pieces of geometry I understood better than others and and so in a modern classroom, right, the standards will be very clear when you come in the. The day's expectations are written on the board and students can can either work together, the teacher knows where kids are and can pull, can pull like groups of kids, Students can assess where, like the progress they made that day and how they're doing on their learning targets. I think it's a one option for classroom communities where we have students moving in and out right coming to us for the variety of learning levels. The day when one person can stand up, lecture and meet the needs of the 25 or 30 students in front of them, those days in our school district are gone. If they ever really existed which, I would argue, probably they didn't.
Mark Wolak:When I think about that level of transition for students and families, that would be a really strong cultural frame that people would have to have on instruction. So 40% of your class might not be there. They might be there at the beginning of the year but not by the end of the year.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:That's correct.
Mark Wolak:Is the community listening to you about that? Do you feel like you're getting some traction from the community in that perspective?
Dr. Laurie Putnam:You know I think so. When I am able to go into like and I do I go to realtors associations, I go meet with rotaries and chambers of commerce, to aspiring business leaders, and that's the message that I deliver there are. We certainly have work to do, right, we don't shy away from that. We're doing a lot, just like many in the state a deep dive on literacy instruction. Just like many in the state, a deep dive on literacy instruction. We just changed over our math curriculum. Our teachers are working really hard to be current in their instructional practices, and so I don't I never shy away from the fact that we can and need to do better.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:And when people look at our students and the challenges that they bring, right. Also strengths Right, 25% of our students are multilingual students, right, so they're learning English and they may have, they may be proficient in two or three other languages Right, but the MCAs are done only in English, right, on one given day. And for us, we have one of the highest percentages of SLIFE students in the entire state, and those are students with limited or interrupted formal English. A significant number of our multilingual learners are coming without literacy in their first language, which takes a while to develop.
Joe Boyle:That's challenging.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:Right. If you're literate in your home language, then you can acquire another much easier. If you're literate in your home language, then you can acquire another much easier. And then 25% of our students are special education identified and certainly I never want people to hear that when I identify those barriers to learning that I don't believe all of our kids can achieve at the highest levels. They can't. Will they achieve at the same time, on the same day, in the same time frame, as a student who has had all of the advantages of a stable home, middle class income Maybe not right, but there is no variation or allowance for that in the measure of an MCA.
Mark Wolak:Thank you for giving voice to that. The other thing that caught my attention when we were first interested in this interview with you was bringing to the community the notion of a community school, and about 20, 25 years ago I was really hoping that Minnesota would do more in this arena, that all of our communities could benefit from a community school model so that children could have access to community help, community assistance, along with education. So I'd like you to talk about that a little bit for our listeners, because we have listeners all over. But in particular, you're the Minnesota Superintendent of the Year and I'd like Minnesota to hear what you think about that.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:I am 100% a believer in community schools. There is, just like there is very little that I can do alone as a superintendent, there is only so much that schools can do alone, particularly when supporting communities of high poverty, high transience. We have to have partners. I also, as a former school counselor, I am a firm believer in family systems and community systems, and we know that when our families thrive, our kids thrive, and so I was very beyond excited that we received that federal grant to start to full service community schools and our services are rolling out in January. And you know, again, speaking of that core value of hope, we did not decide to apply until August and it was due the beginning of September. So they're pretty substantial grants. So I asked our community partners to to come hear about it and we had probably over 30 people in the room right. That, like this, is an incredible community who is willing to show up for its kids. So that was also super hopeful.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:And we have we have, I think, 22 partners who are on board, ranging from CentraCare, the largest health organization in our area, to be able to provide some health support to students and their families.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:We've got several mental health agencies, including one that supports early childhood mental health and caregiver mental health to housing support, financial literacy, all of our arts organizations. We actually framed it around arts and arts access because I think, for a couple of reasons right, it's, if money is tight and it needs to go for food, there's not a lot left over for to go see a play, a concert to. You know my kids, I sent them to theater camp every year, right, and that is not. That's an opportunity that not every child gets to have. And so, and to our point about MCAs right, when we test math, science and reading, you know where are schools going to invest their money and their time math, science and reading. And so we wanted to make sure that, if we were going to develop extended programming, that it really improved arts access. So, every arts organization in this community theater, visual arts, dance, music and production and performance they're all parts of our full-service community schools as well.
Joe Boyle:That's important. How long?
Mark Wolak:do those grants last for you. Could you give a little information about that?
Dr. Laurie Putnam:Yeah, they are five-year grants that we did also apply to the supplemental grant that the Minnesota Department of Education put out and received the grant for one of our community schools. But truly, since its inception our full-service community schools director has been. She brought together a portion of our community and has been working on sustainability efforts because once we get this up and moving, we're not going to let it go. So we're doing some of our own fundraising.
Mark Wolak:Yeah, five years gives you a shot at it becoming a permanent systems change. It's wonderful. Congratulations on that, and good for you for bringing that concept forward and getting it planted, because I think it's really just a very it's a strong means through which the community can become more part of the school.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:Absolutely.
Mark Wolak:It's wonderful.
Joe Boyle:And now it's time for Stories in Life. Art from the heart, deep Thoughts from the Shallow End. Each episode, we bring you a poem, a song or a reading just for you. The Dream Keeper by Langston Hughes Bring me all your dreams, you dreamers. Bring me all your heart melodies, that I may wrap them in a blue cloud cloth, away from the two rough fingers of the world.
Music:Who knows, the one that shows, the one who grows, living life, showing others the path to go, giving the youth someone to look up to, just by being the creator of others' dreams. Who loves the one who gives, the one who lives, showing others, sister, brothers, how to build a better future for Our sons and daughters. Kids, the planter of future seeds. Drive the future. You are my hero. You are my hero. Drive the future. You are my hero. Many times, corruption finds a young one's mind.
Joe Boyle:Laurie, as an active member of the Minnesota Association of School Administrators, and I think you're currently on the Legislative Committee, correct? Yes, what type of legislation are you advocating for Minnesota public schools?
Dr. Laurie Putnam:You know I know people don't want to hear this, but funding is always an issue and certainly the Minnesota legislature and the governor, you know, put forward some very deeply needed and appreciated increases on the formula also tied to inflation, which was fantastic, and we appreciate that it remains a need, though I will say that there are some policy fixes that could address some of those needs. I was happened to be talking to the new mayor of St Joseph this morning and was sharing some facility needs and he said oh, are you just are you going to, you know, do a sales tax? And you know he's new to his position and I think, like many in the public, don't understand that schools have no authority to gain more income or without a voter approval right. So we can't. If our schools are out of space, if they're a hundred years old, if we need an operating referendum right, that all has to come through voters. So certainly there are some fixes that would not require additional financial outlay.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:Of course, the financial outlay is important as well and, as you probably will not be surprised, I am a huge advocate for re-looking at assessment and accountability practices, one of the things that's really important to our school district and I know has finally gained some traction in the public is, for we would really ask and are asking on our platform that the legislature re-looks at charter schools, and not that we are not supportive of school choice.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:I will always tell a family you have to go where what's right for your child, right, whether it's us, a parochial, a private, a charter school, I fully appreciate that. And yet charter schools are, at least in our area, are underperforming us, even in MCAs, which I hate to use and really draw down a lot of our finance, and we end up having transportation cross subsidies. And I won't get too technical. But the board and I are asking and MSBA passed, accepted some of the platforms to say you know, legislature, you put this in place 20, 25 years ago. Are you getting the outcomes right? Are charter schools meeting your intention? If the answer is yes, okay. If it's not, then what do we need to do?
Mark Wolak:Yeah, I think that's a wonderful legislative concern. I was a young administrator in special education when the Alternative Learning Center legislation and the charter school legislation came into Minnesota, and I think it's fair to ask about the outcomes, because choice is one thing, but for public funds to be dedicated to systems that don't produce, then we should take another look at that. So, good for you.
Joe Boyle:We try to stay apolitical on this program, but you have to have some concerns about the state and national political climate right now and the relation to education. Where are your concerns?
Dr. Laurie Putnam:My concerns are polarization, and this is going to sound a little judgy and I'm really working at not being judgy, but I think the lack of curiosity and critical thinking that I see in public discourse right. I'm all for a thorough examination of efficiency, effectiveness, but if it's couched in inflammatory rhetoric or misinformation for personal or political gain, then we have gone awry and I see a lot of that right.
Joe Boyle:You see more and more of it all the time, yep.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:All the time and it concerns me greatly that we are losing our examples of rational public discourse. I'm not a fan of suspension or expulsion, but some of the language that is used on public political platforms right constitutes harassment in my book. So I just I find that incredibly disappointing that adults no matter your political beliefs, that adults are willing to set such poor examples for our students.
Mark Wolak:Low bars examples for our students. Low bars, Yep. So you know I think you have an opportunity to help our listeners about how complex leading a school district is. You know, I think a lot of people think about it as, oh, it can't be that tough. I mean, look at all that money you have and look at all the resources you have. And you know, one of the things that I realized when I moved from even assistant superintendent into the superintendency was how big the universe is and how complicated it is to really run a school district, and then one as large as yours with, I think you have, 10,000 students. Is that correct?
Dr. Laurie Putnam:Just under yep.
Mark Wolak:Yeah, do you want to comment a little bit about that complexity? Is there anything you wish people would know or appreciate more about that?
Dr. Laurie Putnam:There's something interesting and I can't quite put my finger on it, but I think that we are still the third largest employer in St Cloud. Yet the perspective sometimes of the job I do is it's not held in the same regard or understanding, like to your point about complexities as businesses right.
Mark Wolak:Yes.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:I am running a very complex business organization. Our budgets have to be balanced right. I report to a board and I would say that the product, if one wants to use the business right that we are putting out, is far more consequential for except for maybe, or comparatively to healthcare right equally consequential of any organization that's out there. And so I don't know if it's, I can't quite put my finger on why it's misunderstood so profoundly. I don't know if it's because it's public, I don't know.
Mark Wolak:Yeah, it's to me it's underappreciated in terms of how complex the system is. And I have to say this as well the legislature in Minnesota, the governor's office, regardless of which party is in control adds to the complexity of operating a school system Because people, you know they don't realize that the legislature is really one big, giant school board telling school districts what to do, how to measure results, what you have to do, what you can't do. You know it isn't, uh, it isn't a local community school decision on very many topics anymore I would agree with that you.
Mark Wolak:So I love the. I love that you're. You're standing up and being honest and asking for the voices to be heard, and I also pick up, and I think this is why people want to follow you is that you're humble about the role. You certainly have a lot of skills, but you're humble in the way you do your job. So that's so much to your credit.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:Good for you, thank you.
Joe Boyle:It must be somewhat humbling as well.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:Yes, particularly in a knowing that I, you know, of course, we're a collective right, we're an organization. Everybody plays their part and at the end of the day, right, I am responsible for 10,000 babies of somebody. Right, this is their, like their, their most precious thing, right, so that is that is particularly humbling. Right, this is their most precious thing, so that is particularly humbling right. Especially if not every one of them graduates, right, if not every one of them feels safe in a day, right that people trust and trust their kids to us feels super humbling because that's a great gift that they give us as public educators. So I never take that for granted and I'm always grateful when our parents choose us.
Joe Boyle:What do you do to relax?
Dr. Laurie Putnam:I like my dogs. I often I stay home a lot. You know, I give a lot of energy and as I get older I'm learning, I'm trying to learn to, to set better. I know this may sound a little woo woo for some people, for some listeners, but I really do take on a lot of the energy and the experiences of the people that I work with, that I serve, and so I'm really trying to learn to for longevity in this, in this position, I think right, the average 10 years is not very long of superintendents, right. So I'm trying to learn to set good boundaries for myself, emotionally, time-wise, as I get older I'm learning, instead of saying yes to social plans and then not go right To to, to have present me know that future me is not going to want to do that on a saturday night and just say no.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:I don't disappoint anybody, just say no. So I spend a lot of time in my home. Uh, you know my family is super relaxing for me and rejuvenating. Um, I, like I said, I love my. My pets are very comforting. I exercise, I read, I like to bake what kind of music do you listen to?
Dr. Laurie Putnam:I listen to a smattering things, A lot of R&B. One of my former principal colleagues would choose at my AP for a while. She's like boy, you really love 90s R&B? Like, yeah, I guess I do, Like I don't know where that goes.
Joe Boyle:Who wouldn't?
Dr. Laurie Putnam:Right, why would you not? Well, I wish I should have. I should have asked her that Like why don't you?
Mark Wolak:I love that you're taking care of yourself. It's really important. The international research on creating change in systems done by McKinsey and I can find that study for you if you'd like it is that it takes six years to change a system and get it to permanently act in that manner.
Mark Wolak:So your five years on your community schools was just short of that six year right and I hope the school board listens to this and I hope many school board members listen to this and think differently about the churn of school leaders. There are districts in Minnesota that have really suffered from turnover. People maybe don't want to think about it or talk about it, but it's a national concern. Most likely it's something we could do better. I hope that your school board keeps you a long time, because it takes time to get people to really invest in the new leader. Invest in the systems change and you're doing some real leadership. So thank you for that.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:Thank you, I would love to see that study. It's interesting as I was talking just earlier with a colleague. She's a superintendent out of Painesville and I'm confident she won't mind that I'm sharing this. She's doing her doctoral research on stress and the superintendency and she was just sharing with me that 5.7 years is the average tenure in Minnesota and we were talking about how important it is for that longevity and actually speaking about legislative change. You know, one of the things that she and I had talked about was, statutorily, we can superintendents can only have three-year contracts and I don't know why, I don't know what the history of that is, but is it time for the legislature to look at that right? Might we benefit from a five-year, from a six-year, from a four? I don't know, but it does make me wonder how do we start to build the sustainability right, the interest in long-term strategic vision and leadership right?
Mark Wolak:Yeah, thank you. You know, when I was a child in school an adolescent and a high schooler superintendents were under the Minnesota tenure law, so they actually weren't concerned about how many years they had.
Mark Wolak:So that's only been in the last, I would guess maybe 20 years that it's been an issue. So, for listeners again, we can change that right. We can pay attention to keeping our leaders. I want to emphasize the topic of self-care because, having spent years looking for ways to support leaders, including myself, it's one of the underappreciated factors that contribute to both disease and to stress and to conduct related to stress, lack of sleep, depression probably.
Mark Wolak:Depression, substance abuse. So I'm really glad that you're paying attention to that and I really reinforce that because from my own personal experience, I didn't do it as well as I could have and because of that I did have some physical response to all that stress. So it wasn't good for me. I did lose too much sleep, I wasn't in my best game because of it. You know the mind, my busy mind took me away from really being the best leader I could be. So good for you. Pay lots of attention to that.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:I can relate to that. It's an ongoing daily right.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:It's a daily balance an ongoing daily right. It's a daily balance. So when you said yes to this, was there something that you were hoping you could talk about, or anything that you wish we would have asked you?
Dr. Laurie Putnam:I was super glad to talk about assessment, so that was really exciting for me.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:It's like I'm not going to lie, it's my soapbox, right, because it does so much harm, so much harm to our kids. And you know, even the way that we have chosen to disaggregate those results right, and it's always a delicate whenever we talk race, right, it's a delicate conversation and that's something we just as institutions, we have to get more fluent and comfortable. Right, we choose to talk about MCA test results largely in terms of race and certainly there is institutional racism, historical racism, and we see often gaps that are predictable and that is never acceptable. And the way we use those, the way I think I would say the clumsy way, right, that often white, right, often our leaders are white, but the clumsy way that we talk about those results, I worry, reinforce beliefs.
Joe Boyle:Stereotypes yeah.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:Right About who gets to achieve. That breaks my heart, cause we have brilliant kids, no matter their race, their culture, their socioeconomic status, and it gets buried when we say, oh you, all your black students, are achieving at 37%. I made that up. I don't. I'm not saying that that's the right number, right, and and there's just a huge diversity inside of that number. That and and brilliance and all your special education students, right? We cannot talk about our kids in monoliths.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:I'm really grateful to be able to to have that conversation and if that resonates with anybody then all the better. It's going to take hopefully we won't have to go to civil disobedience, but it's going to take some real right, the real strong advocacy to say this is not okay for kids anymore. Absolutely it's not okay for school districts that have low socioeconomic status or right For whatever their reason, are deemed to be insufficient because of a, of a test, of an assessment. My hope is to start drumming up more attention to that conversation, because we owe our kids better and we owe our teachers better. Like, honestly, like, even now, I will be really vulnerable, like I cry every time we get our MCA results. I did every time we got as a principal, because I just we try and we work so hard and I see our teachers see our parents see the growth that happens with our kids and it's just completely obliterated in that moment and it's demoralizing for our teachers, our administrators and our kids.
Mark Wolak:Good for you for being a champion to look for other measures, and the one thing I would want listeners to know is how difficult it is to change a culture. And I see you stepping up and saying we're going to change this, we're going to be different, we're going to pay attention to that individual child. And I wouldn't be sitting here doing this podcast with you this many years later had it not been for great teachers and a great principal in apollo high school that's right you're inspiring it matters.
Mark Wolak:It matters who the teacher is and who the leader is and I admire you for speaking up and we're smart people. We can figure this out. In Minnesota We've got a lot of enterprise and an amazing economy with a lot of people who want to do something. So I think it's worth a great big conversation to think differently about how we measure performance, and I'm hoping that through AI, that maybe, just maybe, we can find some new levers for change in that arena, because I would think the complexity of a child's life, a teacher's day, a school year there's some factors in that that matter more than that one day test score, absolutely.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:I agree with you. We pulled together a summit of thought leaders last June from people from all across the state and one thing I had noticed is that, you know, frequently we'll you know we have superintendents meet together, we have educator conferences like business goes over here, and I feel fortunate to be at an access matter. So much right To to have our former superintendent be the Minnesota Department of Education right, my husband we try to keep good boundaries that my husband is the state senator for our area right, so I get the opportunity to see how some levers of power work. My dream and thanks to a lot of people who who made it happen was to bring business, legislators, politicians and educators and civic leaders together to think about what is in Minnesota.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:We want to be on the forefront of this, what's happening with generative AI, and we can't do it as educators while politicians go do something else, while state standards stay over here and never change, go do something else. Well, state standards stay over here and never change, right. So this is, I think, to your point. We're at a watershed moment where, if we act thoughtfully and judiciously, right and and quite quickly, we are not going to be 10 years down the road going gosh. Look what social media did to our kids. Boy, I wish we had done something different back then.
Mark Wolak:Yeah, right, yeah.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:Now we have the chance to say, hey, hey, gen AI is coming. It's not going away. What new things do we need to teach our kids now so they can now be productive 10 years in the future? They need to understand data science. They need to understand media literacy. They need to understand what does it mean to be human, to be creative, to be wise, to be compassionate, because those are all things that AI will never be. So how do we start to think differently? And that was you know. That's the other thing that I hope people want to continue, and we do have some ongoing group working on some of that. But I get really passionate about that because we don't. We owe our kids to be looking forward and not regretting our actions from the future.
Mark Wolak:Yeah, I have to say this One of the strengths of yours is that you came into the system by looking at what parts of the system didn't work very well, and you know I hear you talking about it now as a superintendent, which that's such a gift to the people that you're leading because you understand the parts of the system that maybe don't produce as well as others, right? I love that. I love that you're leading because you understand the parts of the system that maybe don't produce as well as others, right? I?
Mark Wolak:love that I love that you have that background and that you can see the system as a whole you know together from your experience.
Dr. Laurie Putnam:Thank you, I do think that's one of my gifts, right. We all have gifts, and that is one of mine.
Music:That's a huge contribution as a leader, so we're going to listen to some R&B tonight, right, joe?
Joe Boyle:Yeah, we're going to come up with some good stuff. I just want to congratulate you on your honor. I want to thank you so much for being here today and taking a couple hours out of your busy day to help us convey your vision to our listeners. Thank you very much.
Music:Laurie. Thank you, Laurie.
Music:Thank you, Laurie. I would fly 10,000 miles through the pouring rain Just to see your face. I'd bare my soul to a total stranger Just to sing your name and I'm not ashamed Just to love you Into every morning and I'm not ashamed just to love you and to every morning, I would change my name and run away.
Music:I won't do it for money, I won't do it for pride, I won't do it to please somebody else if it don't feel right, but I'll do it for you and at least I'll try. I would write your name across the land. I'll do it for love. One, two for love. I would write your name across the sky.
xxx:So the world could see what you mean to me.
Mark Wolak:I'd sing songs at the top of my voice in an empty room Just to dance with you and love you.
Joe Boyle:Our music today was Put a Woman in Charge by Keb Mole featuring Roseanne Cash, released in 2019. We also had Drive the Future by Dwayne Lay, his debut solo album from 2013. We finished it up with Do it For Love by Holland Oates. Their album was released in February of 2003. Boy Mark I was so impressed with her passion, her understanding, her intellectualism and her caring for all those students in her district. You know, as a taxpayer, I'm really happy to have somebody like that leading a school district. I think that's our money's put to good use there.
Joe Boyle:What do you think? Oh, I so agree with you. I think that her leadership style seems to be just a perfect fit for the challenges that she's leading the community through, and I admire her and her willingness to tell the truth about what's going on in the community so people can solve real problems and not just be distracted by noise.
Joe Boyle:Yeah, we're not scratching our head wondering what she thought of things. She came right out and told us and I don't know about you, but I'm in total agreement- we have quite a few superintendents in the United States.
Mark Wolak:I think at one point there were maybe 17,000 superintendents so for her to be picked as Minnesota's representative to this recognition is pretty powerful.
Joe Boyle:Yeah, it's a pretty big deal.
Mark Wolak:It's a big deal.
Mark Wolak:And so there'll be a national conference, I think in March, and she'll be a candidate for national superintendent of the year. But I think, beyond all the recognition, we have a great leader in St Cloud Minnesota.
Joe Boyle:Way to go, Laurie.
Mark Wolak:See you next time, Joe.
Joe Boyle:We hope you enjoyed this episode. Please join us again next time on Stories in Life on the radio with Mark and Joe, and visit our website at storiesinlifebuzzsproutcom or email us at storiesinlifepodcast at gmailcom.
